We are trying to determine the location of the area of this photo… may be a Moore building sign and the streetlights are distinctive. This is a Massachusetts private investigation, it’s the client’s fa ther-in-law, was in the Navy. We have been searching streetlights all over the world to find the location and came up with Seattle.
Phil White
Brockton, MA
Via E-Mail 2/6/2009
Looking at the Moo* sign and the building across the street, my first inclination was here at 2nd & Virginia. However, there are a couple reasons that wouldn’t make sense (looks like Smith Tower in bg, side of building across the street doesn’t match, etc). Theories?
Phil White
Brockton, MA
Via E-Mail 2/6/2009
 |
| Photo courtesy Phillip White. |
I think it’s much further south than that: I think that’s Smith Tower in the right background, and I think he’s walking downhill, which would put him right around 1st & Yesler. That seems like a reasonable place for lots of sailors to congregate.
I think the sign says “Moose”, not “Moore”, and there’s a corresponding picture of a moose above it. I can’t find a reference to a Moose bar or theater, but that might help.
I don’t think that is Seattle at all. Other cities had street lights like that. L.A. for one.
Actually, if you look at the left side, you see part of a marquee for what looks like a ‘Warner’ theater.
You might want to pay a visit to cinematreasures.org and look through those listings…
Pretty sure that Moose sign is for a Moose Lodge. I’d hit up the city directories at the library.
And those definitely look like downtown Los Angeles street lights, although I’m not certain that the Warner Theatre ever had a marquee like that.
Looks to me like a Moose drawing above the vertical lettering of the word Moose on bldg to the left side of photo meaning it could be for a brand name of something sporting goods, tobacco, etc. being advertised on the side of that bldg. It does look a lot like the old photos of somewhere in Pioneer Square circa WWII though. Maybe one of the older bldgs still in Pioneer Square has had their facade altered since the 1940s and now doesn’t look the same as in the photo. Have you checked out the Seattle collection on the upper level of the Central Library to see if you can find a match or at least something like a clue there? Maybe the reference librarian of the Seattle Collection at the Central Library would have a clue.
Those lamp posts are the most unique indicator in the photo, and I’ve never seen any like them in Seattle. Seattle’s early street lights were not so tall, and had round globes.
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=1724. Could the height of the posts indicate that perhaps this was in a “taller” city? The L.A. posts shown here look nothing like those in the photo: http://www.latimemachines.com/cra091.jpg
Also, that’s not Smith Tower, as indicated by the window configuration. Smith Tower’s windows are in groups of three, with sets of two on the north and south, and sets of three on the east and west.
Also, the sidewalks appear to be too wide to be Seattle. Making me think it is another bigger city.
Seattle used to have lights like that, see this shot from the 40s of the Moore-
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20070920/450Centennial_Moore1.jpg
I also saw shots of Seattle with those same lights (can’t find them again now), but without the center light. Which means that cities might have had two versions of the lights.
This 40s pic from L.A. shows a very similar (though with two globes) light.
http://tinyurl.com/b7jax5
The thing is though, L.A. doesn’t have a tall skinny building like what is off in the background on the right. So it is more likely somewhere else.
Anony -
The images you posted document a style of lamp post that must have been in wide use at the time, but the ones in question seem more elongated, with the supports of the side lights attached at a lower point on the bottom stems. I stand corrected on assuming Seattle had just the globe type. I’ve never really focused on various lamp post styles, but really distinctive ones do stand out and can be quite interesting.
If Photoshop could be applied to this digital photograph, you might be able to read that white sign under the “MOO” part. I swear I can see the letters “CAV” showing . ..
Probably not it, but the first thing that came to mind (other than the Smith Tower) for the tall building in the background is the Foshay Tower in Minneapolis. Judging by http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/hpc/landmarks/Marquette_Ave_821-27_Foshay_Tower.asp , the window config might actually match.
Of course, it doesn’t seem like a lot of sailors would be roaming the midwest, but it is a river town…
I can’t wait to see how this turns out!
Those three-globe street lights are not quite the same as the ones shown here:
link
Or go to http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~public/phot1.htm and search for 4838
Based on the street lights, it might be the Warner Theater in Washington DC (http://www.panoramio.com/photo/17340157)
I agree that Moo is for a Moose Lodge. There’s a pic of a moose and the Moore theater looked like this: http://historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=3851
I’m kind of wondering if it isn’t Bellingham? They still have lamp posts in Fairhaven that could be the same.
This is gonna bug me. I’m still googling…
need… more… res…
The sidewalk looks far too wide for anywhere I can think of in Seattle. The long, straight, level line of streetlights would require this to be one of the numbered avenues, if such a straight, flat street exists here. I’d guess a city with fewer hills. I’d even guess some part of Manhattan, with those giant sidewalks (meant for high volume traffic).
Here’s a warner theater in Hollywood – http://tinyurl.com/akejlx
Or perhaps here in West Virginia?
http://www.thewarnertheatre.com/history.cfm
Litlnemo, the Navy (actually all the services) had training bases all over the place in WWII. Quite a few were located well inland in order to be safe from potential attacks. Until the moved most of it to Pensacola in the 1990′s, something like 90% of the Navy’s non flight aviation training took place in Millington Tennessee on a base originally built for WWII.
So I wouldn’t rule out a non coastal location for this photograph just on the basis that it has a bunch of sailors.
There was also Warners Hardware stores in downtown Minneapolis. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a theater.
Thanks, JMR, for the photo link. Why would such beautiful lamp posts ever be done away with? Oh yeah, beautiful is totally last century. If we never solve this mystery, at least we’re getting to see some great old lamp posts.
I was thinking that building in the Back was The Foshay Tower too but it’s sides don’t slope and it doesn’t seem to have the smaller corner windows. There’s just not enough detail in this pic!
If we could identify that elaborate gothic building to the right…
San Francisco: 1949, try this.
http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAB-6460.jpg
Read the description!
Oops, I meant:
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/search~S0?/X%22moose%22&SORT=D/X%22moose%22&SORT=D&extended=0&SUBKEY=%22moose%22/1%2C4%2C4%2CB/frameset&FF=X%22moose%22&SORT=D&3%2C3%2C
I think maybe this is the best possibility so far, if not the correct one-
See this street view shot on Market St. in SF.
http://tinyurl.com/cnl6vn
The skinny building was all white back then. Notice the one in the street view image has the same “bump” midway up the building. The shorter ornate one on the right side of the old image was maybe where the new westfield shopping mall is now.
oops.. that’s a Four Seasons Hotel in the new image, not the mall..
Colin – I think you nailed it!!!
Additional Market Street “proof”-
http://www.cartype.com/pics/6020/full/p15476.jpg
In the older picture here, just to the right of the tall skinny white building is another tall darker structure that appears to not have any windows on the side facing the camera. In the above linked shot (taken in the 60′s) the shorter ornate buildings are already gone (parking lot) but the tall darker building without “windows” is there. Notice the vertical rows of horizontal lines correspond to the marks on the building in the older image.
Wow! It’s official. According to Sanborn maps, in 1949 there was no theater on the left but the Gothic Building that was torn down was the State Theater.
The final Answer:
San Francisco C. 1949 On the North side of Market Street near the intersection of Ellis Street.
Wow….I stumbled onto this website a couple of days ago and was enjoying the old pic’s. U guys took it to a whole new level of fun with the detective portion. I think u nailed it and I am sure the private dick will be impressed…
Amazing. Excellent detective work!
You guys rocked it! so fun!
You killed it. Nice job!
I was almost with you on the Market St call but then going back to the street lights, it didn’t seem quite right. On the Market St lights, the two side globes are mounted directly on the “cross bar” that connects them to the main light post. In the original photo, the light globes are on shorter posts that are then mounted to the “cross bar”connecting them to the main light post. Do you see what I’m talking about?
Regarding the lamp post, he is a picture from the 40′s showing the lamp post in the detective picture. The posts are very tall, same with detec photo, and from the same time frame. Add that with the buidling in the back, large side walk, and you have a match.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2729065738_dc19798cbf.jpg
I think maybe this is the best possibility so far, if not the correct one-
See this street view shot on Market St. in SF.
http://tinyurl.com/cnl6vn
The skinny building was all white back then. Notice the one in the street view image has the same “bump†midway up the building. The shorter ornate one on the right side of the old image was maybe where the new westfield shopping mall is now.
Also, if you look at this picture again, you see the same lamp posts from the picture on the left side. If you rotate the camera, there is a clear image of the same lamp post right behind the camera.
Great work! Here’s some more fun for ya:
I had to verify the distinctive building on the right for myself; here’s Market street in 1948: http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAB-6451.jpg
aaaand a closer view from 1949: http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAB-6454.jpg
Odd photo of airplane stuck on market street, with the gothic building in the background: http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAB-6443.jpg
I believe many of the buildings behind the airplane (except the gothic one) are still there:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=860+market+street+san+francisco&sll=37.78506,-122.406723&sspn=0.015059,0.052786&ie=UTF8&ll=37.785317,-122.407029&spn=0.003968,0.013196&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr&layer=c&cbll=37.784856,-122.406993&panoid=DAaJZco4nArZgKzaPkNsAw&cbp=11,38.11501589830594,,0,-11.82926829268293
Note the clock on the left side of street view matches the clock in the airplane photo, and look at the windows above Juicy Couture (opened at the top in the airplane photo) and the arch between this building and the next (just visible behind the lamppost in the airplane photo).
I’m going to SF this weekend, maybe I can take the original photo with me and try to find the right spot.
One more thing –
Compare the arched windows in this picture: http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAB-6454.jpg
To the windows at Old Navy: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=860+market+street+san+francisco&sll=37.78506,-122.406723&sspn=0.015059,0.052786&ie=UTF8&ll=37.785538,-122.406106&spn=0.003968,0.013196&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr&layer=c&cbll=37.785541,-122.406097&panoid=7e70oEbrlzLhLCPLGuf8QA&cbp=11,91.96867443489131,,0,-16.168292682926815
So unfortunately the gothic building used to be where the Ross currently is.
OK, that’s enough fun for now.
That is not the Smith Tower in the background. If you look up images of the Smith Tower, the windows are different than the building in that photo.
I’m with the others who above, I think this is not Seattle. I can’t think of anywhere in Seattle where we have those lamp posts.
New York City, Manhattan, circa 1945 right when the troops were coming home after winning WWII.
Becca figured it out. The airplane stuck on a sign shows TWO unique things that are in the original photo of the dude:
First, of course, the gothic building matches, but also notice WAY over on the left side of the original photo the sign that intersects the big “Moo..” sign. It has what looks to me like an “angel” sort of figure coming off the edge. IF you darken the original photo in Photoshop you can see the shape of it more clearly.
You will find that same figure/sign in the shot of the airplane stuck on Market Street! it’s on the VERY edge of the shot on the left, just above and to the left of the traffic signal that says “Go” on it.
Every body know im coming soon like lebrons ring