I h ave a new mystery submission if you are interested. I just purchased this picture on eBay. I guessed at the year being about 1910 and while it is obviously taken downtown near one of the old train stations, I have no idea who the group of people might be. Everyone is wearing ribbons and medals which would probably answer these questions but unfortunately none of these can be read. Any info someone could provide would be appreciated.
Allen
Via E-Mail
9/25/2009
Allen
Via E-Mail
9/25/2009
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| Presumably a train station in Seattle, around 1910. Photo courtesy Allen. |
I don’t have any solution, but I do note that one of the gentlemen near the center of the image is wearing a large pretzel on his chest among his many badges and ribbons.
I saw the pretzel too.
I was going to theorize that this may have been the send-off crew of dignitaries for Teddy Roosevelt’s visit in 1903. (He arrived by steamship, but left on the Presdential train. Would that be Amtrak One today?)
I’m not persuaded by the women’s clothing that the photo is as late as 1910, but we may also have lagged a bit in the latest fashions due to being such a distant outpost of civilization.
But then, I saw the guy wearing the pretzel. I’m hopeful that folks wouldn’t wear snack food to send off a President, so I am once again at a loss for an educated guess…
…Maybe something to do with the Alaska Yukon Expo in 1909?
I’m pretty sure it’s 1909 or later — Northern Pacific engine 2185 was built in 1909. (If that’s a Great Northern in the background, it’s probably King Street station, and a Northern Pacific engine on the right.)
That thing that looks like part of a train shed on the upper left. King Street Station (Great Northern) never had one of those. This could be in Portland. Their Union Station has something similar to that. No?
I guess it did.
I was going to say, what makes us certain it’s Seattle?
Perhaps it was a dedication of the mile long tunnel under Alaskan Way in 1904: http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=4029
The man in the middle with the light colored suit and walking stick (next to the guy with the pretzel) appears to be holding a pocket watch and looking off to the left — perhaps he is waiting for the first train to come through the tunnel just to the north?
I just assumed on the date. It could easily have been earlier than 1910.
I have to believe this is Seattle because the Photographer is in Seattle. If it was in any other city I’m sure a local photographer would have been used.
It’s hard to place the year based on fashion, although I will say that a couple of those women’s hats are dangerously close to being Merry Widow hats, which came into popularity in 1907-1908.
Does the number on the train help us at all?
This matches the king street station architectural style:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/womens&CISOPTR=62&CISOBOX=1&REC=18
One more note, if you check the face of the lady closest to the train to the mayor’s pic:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/womens&CISOPTR=62&CISOBOX=1&REC=18
Don’t they sorta match?
I agree that if this photo was indeed taken in Seattle, then this is King Street station. The train behind this group is labeled “Great Northern”, which ran out of King Street (along with the Northern Pacific). Union Pacific and Milwaukee Road ran out of Union Station.
A date clue, the engine on the right is a P-1 class engine built in 1914 by Great Northern.
Here’s the roster
http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/index2.htm?GNEGNSteamRosterQ2.htm
Actually the link you posted would seem to indicate that the engine was rebuilt in 1928 from an older engine with a different number. The clothing style is way too early for 1928. Maybe I’m reading the site wrong.
It’s more likely that Josh was correct in assuming that the engine is a Northern Pacific (Which also ran out of King Street Station). The site he posted also has several photos of the 1909 engine. Most are photographed at stations around Washington State.
Sorry, but as it’s previously been said the locomotive on the right is an Northern Pacific Railway 4-6-2 “Pacific” type locomotive, built 1909.
As for the passenger cars, most of them look to have been built before the 1914-1915 time frame when steel passenger cars were starting to be used by the major railroads. So basing on the wooden passenger car construction styles, I’d say the date of the photo is in the 1900 to 1914 range.
Oops, Sorry I meant 1909 to 1914 for the time frame of the passenger cars in the photograph.
Could those be temperance ribbons and medals? It’d be about the right time period for pro-prohibition demonstrations.
Great Northern and the Northern Pacific in 1905 formed the Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway Company, which built a line between Spokane and Portland. Subsequently, that company acquired various lines in Oregon by purchase, lease and building. Utilizing trackage rights, Great Northern began operating trains between Seattle and Portland in 1910.
http://www.gnrhs.org/gn_history.htm
Might that be James J.Hill in the center, in the light suit, with crumpled hat, next to pretzel guy?
http://www.sadisfilmworks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/jjh1.jpg
06/01/1909 : James J. Hill opens the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition in Seattle, Washington.
05/10/1906 : Northern Pacific Railway’s King Street Station goes into service in Seattle, Washington.
http://www.wsrhs.org/date1900s.htm
This MIGHT be the answer. Please check out:
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=2621
Take a look at the photo of Emma Smith DeVoe, then look at the woman in the middle of the photo at the front of the group in the ONLY Black suit in the crowd.
I belive she may be Emma…
“In 1906, Emma Smith DeVoe (1848-1927) is elected president of the Washington Equal Suffrage Association. At the time of her election the organization is flagging badly, with exactly two members. After her election, membership jumps to 2,000. It is partly through her work that in 1910 the women’s national suffrage caucus is held in Washington state, and Washington men vote in favor of women’s suffrage, making Washington the fifth state in the nation to give women the right to vote.
DeVoe came to Washington with her husband, John DeVoe, in 1905. She was a seasoned organizer from the national crusade. Dr. Cora Smith Eaton contributed office space for headquarters in her suite in downtown Seattle’s Arcade Building. DeVoe enlisted support from other women’s organizations and launched a grassroots campaign with few parades but with plenty of speakers at supportive club, farmer, labor, and Protestant church gatherings. …
In November of 1910, Washington women won the vote. In 2000, Emma Smith DeVoe was elected to the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York.
Better Yet… it may have been THEIR TRAIN!
Suffrage Special arrives in Tacoma on June 29, 1909.
HistoryLink.org Essay 8536 : Printer-Friendly Format
At 5:45 p.m. on June 29, 1909, the Suffrage Special, a Northern Pacific Railroad train carrying suffragists en route to the National American Woman Suffrage Association Convention in Seattle arrives at the Northern Pacific Depot in Tacoma. On board are 37 presidents of state suffrage associations; The Reverend Dr. Anna Howard Shaw (1847-1919); widow of the railroad magnate Henry Villard, Frances Garrison Villard (1844-1928); and a large delegation of Eastern Washington suffragists who boarded the train in Spokane. The suffragists are welcomed by a large delegation of their comrades from Tacoma and Seattle, and taken to Point Defiance Park for dinner and to the Tacoma Chamber of Commerce offices where they are formally welcomed.
All Aboard for the A-Y-P
Both the state and the national suffrage conventions were being held in Seattle at this time in order to capitalize on the publicity opportunities offered by the ongoing Alaska-Yukon-Pacific (A-Y-P) Exposition in progress on the grounds of the University of Washington and drawing huge crowds from around the state and across the nation. The planned culmination of the national suffrage convention was an honorary Woman Suffrage Day at the A-Y-P on July 7, 1909.
The Tacoma Times stated, ” ‘The Yellow Special’ is the name railroad men have applied to the train which is bringing the ‘Votes For Women’ advocates across the country” (“Tacoma To Entertain…”). Gold or yellow, often with purple or, in Washington, green, were used on pins, sashes, and banners to denote support for woman suffrage.
The suffragists had been thoroughly feted in Spokane, where the Chamber of Commerce had held a well-attended public meeting at the Spokane First Methodist Church. As the Suffrage Special crossed Washington it made whistle stops in Pasco, North Yakima (now Yakima), and Ellensburg. At each stop suffrage leaders addressed crowds from the train’s rear platform, whipping up the support of Washington’s male voters and their female family members for the upcoming 1910 vote to amend the state constitution and grant women the voting franchise.
One last note: look at the building in the background in the upper left corner. It would NOT be a match to any of King Street Station. Union Station used to have a secondary building, not formal brick, that sorta looked like that to protect folks using the stairs from the station level to the track level below. There was such an edifice similar at King Street, but the large gargoyle of what appears to be either a statue or a wing does not match anything I recall at King Street.
It might be possible that is is the old transfer area to the old Tacoma station.
The overhead cover was similar at most all area stations at the time… but it is the puzzle of the building in the upper left background that leads me to belive that it was not at King Street Station. We know it would not have been Union Station as it was GN and NP track… so it makes me wonder if this was shot in Tacoma.
Sorry, but this photo was definitely taken at King Street Station in Seattle. The platform covers are correct for King Street Station. Union Station in Tacoma used a different platform setup. Most of the older platform covers were removed as part of the Station upgrades for Sound Transit.
The photo was taken on the south side of the station, with the photographer facing east and standing on two of the “Stub” tracks (Which still exist).
Dear Mike..
OK… so I am with you about the overhead… and I can place myself facing east with the stub tracks… but if so, then what is the building I see in the upper left corner of the photo… that’s what is thowing me off. I just did a search of historic photos at UW, and cannot find that building adjacent to, or as part of King Street Station… but I seem to recall a later built walkway covering over the steps from the station down to the platform in Tacoma… but still no evidence. Your thoughts?
Mike,
Check this photo out… you will see why I am puzzled at the upper left corner.
This is King St. from the south… no building like that in the photo… and this shot was taken one year later if our guesses are correct…
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/seattle&CISOPTR=2153&CISOBOX=1&REC=19
Even better shot of King St. 1912 from the South East corner.
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=882&CISOBOX=1&REC=8
Greg, you mean southwest, no?
Greg,
You can pretty clearly see the gargoyle/winged statue thing on the auxiliary building to the right rear (SE corner) of the main King Street station in the second UW library picture link you posted. That building is the right height to match the angle from the original posting picture. You just can’t really see the sloped roof from the original posting picture because of the angle of the camera.
Okay, I totally see where this was taken now! In Greg’s link above, you can see the white covering over the loading platforms in the image on the lower right (Just beyond the blurry carriage). The pitched roofs immediately to the left of there can just partially be seen in the crowd photo to the far left. The finial or “gargoyle” thingy that’s sticking up in the far top left of the crowd photo is on the taller pitched roof, slightly behind and to the left in both photos. If there was a larger image of the 1912 station photo, this would probably be clearer.
This looks promising:
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8587
The Women’s Sufferage Convention was held in Seattle in early July 1909. Many delegates traveled across the country on a special Northern Pacific train that made stops along the way for the women to hold events for the sufferage cause. While this is in no way definite, but it is very tantalizing.
Oops! I just realized the Suffrage story had already been posted.
Thanks Matt, Mike et all…
I sent a link to an author who specializes in writing about Seattle Women, and she was quite excited at the possible prospect of a good photo of that meeting. There is a gathering this weekend about AYP and Suffrage, and she will share the photo there and see if this photo is indeed what we think it is. Thanks one and all for help in placing the shot… I think my mystery building may have been the angle afterall..
How many men came along as part of the suffrage train? It appears the majority of people in the picture are in fact male. I always pictured the suffrage movement as being led and dominated by women. Were these a bunch of progressive guys, or were many of the men in the picture actually city dignataries there to welcome the train to Seattle?
The small building to the right of the king street station has the same architectural style as the building the above pic. Here is a link to a better picture:
http://www.slideshare.net/allieger/yesterday-today-king-street-station-in-photos-presentation
Select ‘full’ to see a full screen picture. The way the building is off the tracks and the “gargoyle” styling on the end posts of the building seem to match. The picture was taken by the tracks of the king street station facing that building above the tracks. What do you think?
Hi, here is a much better photo and the building in the back ground matches the building in the back ground of the photo above:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdot_photos/3811778625/sizes/l/in/set-72157622012646948/
I’m still convinced that the lady closest to the train match a younger Bertha Landes, future Mayor of Seattle at this point:
http://digitum.washingtonhistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/womens&CISOPTR=62&CISOBOX=1&REC=18
LOL, Ok, I have stared at this photo enough. Anyone noticed the two ladies staring at each other across the picture?? LOL
Yes… and if this is indeed a come together of all those for womens votes, there were two groups that did not see eye to eye on process, each with their own leader… it is possible the two giving each other “the evil eye” may have been folks affiliated with the feuding factions…
Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not a picture of the suffrage special or Emma Smith DeVoe. I have spent the last 9 years researching and writing about her, and I don’t recognize her in this photo. Furthermore, I don’t see a single suffragist who came to Seattle in this photograph. I don’t even recognize a local woman.
The suffrage special was scheduled to arrive in Seattle at 11:30 PM, according to my records. If this is the arrival, it’s awfully light out.
Dear Jenifer…
Thank you for taking the time to review this mystery photo… wow… another mystery not resolved…
OK… it is driving me crazy. SO I took the photos, put it in paintbrush, and blew it up to 400 percent. A new clue. About mid photo there is a fellow with an umbrella and a pennent. The lettering is very faint, but when blown up, it appears to read __ P.O.E. of which the BPOE or Elks Club might be the purpose of the meeting. EAGLES began here, and Elks were a very succesful fraternal organiztion here in the NW… COuld this have been some large meeting of Elks?
none of the ribbons worn were legible… but the Pennant does read fairly clearly P. O. and E…
Great site! Found you via the Municipal Archives’ Flickr stream…
Greg’s on to something. If you tinker with the levels a little, that man’s pennant clearly reads “…P.O.ELKS” Though, from what I can see, no one else has a similar pennant.
Here is a present day view from approximately the same location:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crackdog/4333938934/
In 1912 the Elks held their national convention in Portland, OR. Perhaps this was the Seattle Elks before they boarded a train to the 1912 convention.
We at classifiedhumanity may have at the very least identified the man wearing the pretzel.
http://classifiedhumanity.com/post/13517083632/apologies-for-the-illegibility-and-seemingly-lack
Here is what we just posted:
“Apologies for the illegibility and seemingly lack of reason for this posting. We were reading this post and comments at Vintage Seattle concerning the mystery of this photo and may have happened upon the identity of at least the man wearing the pretzel on his lapel. So in interest of helping with this mystery and something to link to to put into their comments, we are posting it here so it can be referenced.
We have, obviously, no idea if we are right, but just perhaps under the “waiters” heading, “Herr Pretzel” aka J. E. Gabriel is the man pictured in the photo linked to above. He has a somewhat extensive return when searching for exclusively “J. E. Gabriel” when it comes to matters of the Elks Club. The date is somewhat right. And per the photo and checking the weather for that date (November 18th, 1913) the clothes worn look about right as well — given that the pretzel joke was remotely current with both the column and the occasion warranting this photo. Here’s to you, Herr Pretzel…
November 18th, 1913″
May or may not be, but could be!
Cheers,
CH Editors